The Debate

[GilmoreChica]

[glow=red,2,300]ok osmeone used the beauty and the beast song in a fic, a r/t fic, and i thought it was VERY r/t, so i post it
Tale as old as time

True as it can be

Barely even friends

Then somebody bends

Unexpectedly

Just a little change

Small to say the least

Both a little scared

Neither one prepared

Beauty and the Beast

Ever just the same

Ever a surprise

Ever as before

Ever just as sure

As the sun will rise

Tale as old as time

Tune as old as song

Bittersweet and strange

Finding you can change

Learning you were wrong

Certain as the sun

Rising in the east

Tale as old as time

Song as old as rhyme

Beauty and the Beast

Tale as old as time

Song as old as rhyme

Beauty and the Beast





describes r/t perfectly.....what it would be like![/glow]

[Sara]

In a runaway little boy...he was a jerk to her...first not wanting to listen to her and then acting like they never kissed...therefore making her upset. In truth it seems unlikely that  Tristan would have ever acted they way he did at the very end of the eppy if he wasn't leaving. True he was kind in the end and respected her relationship that much I'll give him. He was kind and friendly but it took him how long? He had to be saying goodbye until he finally apologized for everything. Even when they kissed and he said he was sorry for being a jerk a few episodes later there he goes again being a world-class jerk. Your right Susie its probably not the real him but the point is he never made enough of an effort to change so thast she could see him as a nice guy or even someone she could talk to civilly.

Calm down Susie hehe they are only both from Chilton believe it or not I have much more respect for Tristan that...the other guy.

Yeah your right Dean isn't the typical badboy...far from it in fact as we come to see my point was that in actuality he was portrayed as someone the town didn't like too much...but it was actually to counter your point that Tristan was nothing like James Dean...I'm just not seeing the whole brooding thing and lack of communication.

[Sara]

As for yeah the point that about L/L and R/T was brought up but there's a difference in the banter like I said L/L are kind in their words and Luke hasn't been a playboy jerk to Lorelai.

As for Tristan's true persona your right we don't know if he's a jerk or not but we do know that he has never tried enough to change how he is perceived to Rory. And as for Melissa loving Tristan or whatever I think we all need to be reminded that this is Rory and Dean or Tristan personal feelings aren't as important its not who we want or we like its whos best for Rory. Who Rory would be best with and from their we pick Dean or Tristan.

Actually the narcos team didn't bring up the second chance idea you guys did. Tristan had several opportunities to be her friend and he failed at all of them by being a jerk to her.

As for not keeping up your right that its tough for him to keep up the banter but not difficult to understand them which was what he was explaining. If Luke has trouble bantering you think little Tristan is going to be able too? Several times Tristan has been told off by Rory or just been ignored truth is Rory considered him an annoyance and not of enough importance to care about.

Kiss too much ... lol sorry but I've gotta laugh here. It is rare that they give each other more than a quick kiss. And if that's too much...well never mind. I also think that the accusation that Dean was only interested in that is wrong. Sure he wanted to kiss her...that is not uncommon...if there is a problem with kissing then maybe you ought to take a look at Tristan's own adventures.

[Sara]

The song in my opinion relates more to Jess and Rory but since they aren't the issue I'm moving on...

And the college thing well it seems like you trories are sure that if Tristan and Rory go to college together they'll make it. That's contradicting your point about meeting new people. Maybe Dean and Rory won't marry each other whatever...but I was speaking about the end of the show. The show will most likely end with Luke and Lorelai marrying and Dean and Rory together.

I think what the narco team definitely wants to establish is that Tristan has never made a visible effort to get across to Rory that he is in fact a sensitive person. Tristan is too busy keeping up his facade and he is not secure enough with himself to be a good boyfriend to Rory who is confident with herself she knows she's not perfect but she also is secure...Dean is secure with himself and there is the attraction factor between the two and the love they have for each other.

Their relationship is boring because their happy with each other? So....how would it be more interesting with Tristan...if we venture out to say that in the trory point of view they'd be happy then there you go your back where you started. Their happy they kiss same old same old.

The pics of Tristan's good looks aren't very relevant to a healthy relationship. So what if he's cute? If he isn't able to be a nice person and get rid of his facade then a lot of good those looks are going to bring.

[Sara]

Now that I'm through rebutting I will make some extra points.

Dean and Rory have been interested in each other from the beginning. She was willing to throw over Chilton for him. Now that is personally not the best thing in the world to do but whatever point made.

Rory basically asked Dean if he was her boyfriend and her happiness when he said he was is she "wanted him to be." She was ecstatic when he said yes...she cares about him so much. Her love for him can always be seen when they are together. All the trouble she went through to get him back. She went to his house tried to manipulate his sister to go up to his room and made a huge speech at the meeting.



Look how happy Dean and Rory are!

[Sara]

Dean and Rory are just happy to be together. They don't need some big exciting relationship because they are happy with one another. Rory has only been interested in Dean. She hasn't shown interest in Tristan...all the sparks you seem to see look like annoyance. Like when Tristan has her pinned up against a locker oh yeah she's really happy there definitely romantic.

[Materialgrl82]

[glow=red,2,300]Dear Lord, I spend the night watching a movie and the morning at church and I come home to this! Well Happy Easter to me!
Anyways, heres a terribly nontrory comment Im going to say Abby, but I dont personally think R/D kiss too much, its kinda sweet. But I seriously felt the need to give Dean a restraining order in Love, Daisies and Troubadours, Lol, but thats a side note. Also, Sara, I dont think that the song Beauty and the Beast applies to Jess and Rory at all. They are friends! Thats the point! Also, this may dig the trory grave deeper, but Tristan and Rory are barely friends, but they connect! Man, I wish I had that kinda connection with a guy, sidetracking again...*mental note:stay on subject!*...Ahh, also, I know it was probably rude and insulting for us to say that Rory and Dean are boring together, but sorry its true! Nothing exciting happens with them anymore, they act like they're 50! And they have this very comfortable, worn-in relationship, its a part of their lives, but its kinda like a pair of old shoes. Eventually, the shoes just dont support you anymore, you have to get rid of them and buy new ones! Now, I know buying a relationship would just be creepy, but its an analogy, go with it! Lol. "Tristan is too busy keeping up his facade and he is not secure enough with himself to be a good boyfriend to Rory who is confident with herself she knows she's not perfect but she also is secure...Dean is secure with himself and there is the attraction factor between the two and the love they have for each other."--Sara. I think you're drawing things off weird Sara, although maybe its just a difference in opinion. Yes, I agree Tristan is too busy keeping up his facade to let Rory see the real him, which sucks like hell might I add!, but its a way of life to him. He has to for school, its a reputation, and we dont know if Tristan is a good boyfriend or not to Rory, considering they've never gone out! Also, Dean and Rory have never gone to school together. How do you know how Dean would act with Rory when his friends are around? I mean, yeah, they've been together on the show when Todd was around, but Todd was a dumbass. Lol, he wouldnt have known what happened if a building caught on fire.
~*Susie*
[/glow]

[Princess_Ruby]

He wasn't the nicest person to her In run away little boy, but that was only because he was hurt and frustrated. You can plainly see his hurt when Rory mentions that she and Bagboy are doing good, and that he is confused and doesn't know what to do around her
(that whole taking the book out, then putting it back in). Also, when he denies that it was her that he kissed, it's easy to see that he was joking and he quickly ammended himself.
He could have just as easily blown her off if he was a true "jerk" but he didn't. He was kind and never let out their secret.

Also, I never knew the reason why the kiss was such a big deal to Rory. I mean if it was all a big accident and didn't mean anything, why is she so worried about telling Dean? What right does Bagboy have to get upset if Rory accidentaly kissed someone WHILE THEY WERE BROKEN UP!? This shows that she has some fear of his jealous tendancies. If they were truely on the same level, she wouldn't be worried about telling him. Isn't honesty the basis of all relationships?

About the banter - Tristan being a playboy has nothing to do with the ability for Rory and him to have effective bantering sessions. Even C/L aren't always kind in their words, but they are nicer because they have had years of this, years to get to know one another. I'm willing to bet that their banter started off quite similar to that of R/t's.

[Princess_Ruby]

I disagree with the comment that Tristan had several chances. True, he had his first chance, but that was different because he thought that she would be an easy conquest - he was still in player mode. But Rory did define him from that one meeting and was slightly hostile to him ever since. When he discovered that she really isn't like that, she had already developed an
opinion of his character. They did, however, start to be tentative friends after the kiss, but then Rory is the one that gets mad at him. He actually tries going out with Paris because Rory suggested it. Then when he accidently (you can see by the dialogue that it probably wasn't on purpose, he just let it slip) tells Paris that it was Rory's suggestion she blows up at him. He is so shocked that she still doesn't see the obvious, he tells her about Summer.

I still argue the fact that Tristan would be able to keep up with banter much better than Dean because of his intelligence and sharp wit. I don't see how the fact that Rory "considers him an annoyance" factors into the bantering. Also, Rory didn't seem to consider him that big of an annoyance because she does, at ONE point, try to become his friend.

I don't think that Dean kisses Rory too much, I actually think that they don't show enough intamacy. But I do think that Dean was rushing Rory, going too fast for her with the whole "I Love you" saga. He should have been more mature and understanding about that.

[Princess_Ruby]

The song DOES relate well to Tris and Rory, Tristan is a type of beast 'a facade, bad exterior hiding the good underneath' and Rory is the one that is changing him, bringing out that good.

We're not sure that they will make it but r/t have a higher chance on continuing a relationship because of their similar paths. And I doubt that the show will end with D/r. I actually think that this show has a very long running time and the D/R storyline is headed for boardem soon. They will probably introduce a new character, or have Rory end up with Jess.

Tristan did make a visible effort to show his sensitive side on many accounts. THe kiss, the friendship and the play.

I disagree with the comment that Dean is secure with himself. If he was truely secure then he wouldn't need all that jealousy. There was attraction between the two but it is slowly getting boring, like a routine. Rory needs someone that can offer excitement. Tris can show her the world that she was never introduced to, it would be exciting because there is so much they can teach each other. Rory can show Tris the small town life, how
it is to have a caring family. The possibilities are endless.

[Princess_Ruby]

"love" is not everything. Just because they say that they love each other, it doesn't mean that they can hold a relationship, look at L/C. And are they truely happy with one another? It seems like lately all Rory is doing is explaining herself and her actions to Dean, or hiding them from him.

Those things with Rory and Dean show that they care, true. But look at the length that she had to go through and the hurt he caused just because she didn't say I love you. The first "boyfriend" thing happened a long time ago and the novelty of that wore off fast.

So Dean and Rory are going to live a boring and uneventful life, consisting of his chasing off all other guys that get within a ten feet radius of her, then when she leaves for college and her bright future, he will continue to work at the grocery store foever earning the title "bagboy".

[Princess_Ruby]

Rory HAS shown some interest in Tristan, even if it is strictly platonic, it definitely has the potential to head elsewhere. Tristan could offer her so much more.

Also, Rory and Dean are NOT secure in their relationship so you guys are wrong. He may seem to think they are, but Dean is obviously a little dense. Jess is easily working his way into Rory's life, she defends him on numerous accounts, calls him and fights with her mother about him. Rory even admits "things are a little weird" between her and Dean, and is so upset when she accidentaly loses the bracelet. Why couldn't she just tell him 'Gosh Dean, I lost it! I'm so sorry!' and then they could look for it together. And she didn't even notice that it was gone for two weeks!

So if this is evidence of what their "secure, happy" relationship has to come, Dean and Rory are the perfect couple (that was sarcasm if you didn't catch it, narcos! lol).

[Materialgrl82]

[glow=red,2,300]Thank you Ruby! Woo-hoo, you rock! Anyways, moving on.
Ruby raises a good point here..."He is so shocked that she still doesn't see the obvious, he tells her about Summer."--Ruby. I love you forever for that comment Ruby, you totally are enhancing this here! Lol.
Alright, so my take on what Ruby mentions in that quote is this. He does put himself on the line in that section. So he lets it slip that Rory set them up, I would have too! I mean, Rory seems like the kind of person who would tell Paris first, you know? And so Tris just lets it slip. I know Rory gets mad, but I really think its her fault anyways. But thats not really important, he shows hes caring by not dating Paris. He knows he could, but he doesnt want to hurt Paris because he knows he likes Rory. He tries to portray that to her with the whole comment about someone else, very clearly hinting that someone is her! But Rory inherited her mothers defiance and ignorance in terms of love, and she completely ignores the fact it is her. Also, after Rory and Tristan kiss, Tristan says the kiss meant nothing, and although that would have been the time to tell her his feelings he doesnt because he knows shes not over Dean, and he knows that if he says it meant nothing, that is what she wants to hear. Also, it will make their friendship easier if she doesnt know hes head over heels for her. On another note, Dean has sort of taken on a bodyguard role towards Rory. He is so afraid he'll lose her to Tristan or Jess or any other young, gorgeous stud muffin(Love that phrase! ) that he forgets to enjoy the relationship they have. I know Dean felt threatened by T when he was there, and still feels threatened by Jess, but Rory has enough control over herself that if she really cares for Dean then she wouldnt cheat on him. He should trust her in that. And yeah I know he doesnt trust Jess or Tristan but the bottom line is, it takes 2 to make a decision like that, and Rory can say no and will! So he shouldnt feel insecure, he knows Rory cares for him and hes going insane with jealousy over nothing he can control!
~*Susie*
[/glow]

[Princess_Ruby]

LOL Susie!! You rock too!!
(This is how trories work together to futher each others ideas)

Good point Susie, he DOES show that he cares when
he doesn't date Paris. He tries, for Rory, but he knows that his feelings for Rory are too important so he lets Paris down gently, telling her that they work better as friends. Even though Paris blows the whole Rory thing out oF proportion, Rory should have had enough sense to know that Tristan didn't mean to let it slip, and that he was only trying to please her by dating Paris.
Thank you Susie for bringing up the whole "meaning nothing" thing. Even though he clearly doesn't mean it, he shows that he cares by telling Rory what he thinks she wants to hear. He could have just as easily told her the truth about his feelings for her but he knows that her relationship with Dean meant something to her (after all, it WAS her first) and he doesn't want to rush her into anything else. Unlike Dean, he has some courtesy not to push her into anything, at least so soon after a break-up. He tries to be nice, to be her friend
so that maybe later their relationship could go farther.

About Dean, the bottom line is their relationship is not as perfect and happy as you narcos make it out to be. There are many problems, Dean is way too protective and Rory is too scared of upsetting him for the relationship to be healthy. It was said that Dean is 'secure' but there is absolutely NO true evidence of that fact. In reality there is alot of evidence against his security. Lately, their relationship just seems to consist of Rory calming Dean down after he gets angry at an
insigniicant issue.

*** just my little note (not exactly debate related) I think that Jess would make a better match for Rory than Dean, even more so from recent episodes. Jess is like my stand-in Tristan.

[Materialgrl82]

[glow=red,2,300]This is like tag team debating now, lol. Again, great points Ruby!
First, commenting on Rubys side note, I completely agree. Besides the fact that Jess is a total babe, hes so cool! He'd be good for Rory, but I see them more as best friends than a couple. Im going to be a little daring, and bring a total narco moment in to support me. Sounds like an oxymoron, but we'll see how it goes. For anyone who hasnt figured out, Im talking about Season Finale, Chilton, The "Public Mauling" as I have come to refer to it as, hehe...kidding, kinda. Anyways, Dean really doesnt respect Rory much in that episode. He acts completely irrational and doesnt even listen to Rory until she screams she loves him(personally, I dont believe she actually means it, she just says what she knows he wants to hear to calm him down, but thats ok). Then, Dean is immediately over there like devouring her like he has to claim her as his own again. I mean, talk about possessive. Theres like no emotion really with him, I mean hes happy but(now Im really going out on a limb...Im treading dangerous waters...hehe, its fun!) Tristan would be happier in that situation. However, Tris and Rory would never be in that situation I dont think, because Tristan is much more cool and collected, hes smooth and suave and all those player-ish adjectives, but hes got control and he wouldnt freak so easily.
~*Susie*[/glow]