The Debate

[Materialgrl82]

[glow=red,2,300]Take one look at this adorable boy's face, hes torn apart. He knows that acting the way he did with the books was childish, but hes not used to getting his way. And some may see that as snotty and rich, but I think its adorable, because hes trying to change, he really does. And its more for Rory than anyone else. And Rory's not perfect either. Shes lived a sheltered life, full of non-blood extended family. But whos going to be there for her when she leaves home, goes to Boston to fulfill her dream of Harvard. She cant just pack Stars Hollow in a box and take them all with her. And realistically, is Dean actually going to be there for her? I doubt it, I mean sure he loves her, but love doesnt solve everything. I mean Dean wont be able to go to Harvard with her, and long-distance relationships are hard. And how would Dean act if he wouldnt be able to see what guys were trying to pick up Rory. I mean he gets jealous really easily and if hes not there to protect her, how paranoid could he get? Now, dont get me wrong, Im not trying to make Dean out to be an asshole whos not smart enough for Rory or anything but I really dont think Dean is the right guy for Rory. Yes, I think she needed Dean in her life to prepare her for a serious relationship, but I definitely think hes not the one. Besides, you can always see the attraction between Rory and Tristan, theres a spark there...see--->

More soon...
~*Susie* [/glow]

[Materialgrl82]

[glow=red,2,300]Im back! Joy to all who have to read this *evil cackle* See Ruby, I told you this would be hard to explain unless I did it myself. On with the show, in this post Im going to try to contradict some of Sara and Melissas Narco points more, ok?

"tristan was giving the opportunity and he was still a jerk...he was a jerk from the beginning so he just ruined his opportunities!"--Melissa   Just curious Melissa, are you saying here you dont believe in second chances? Personally, everyone deserves a second chance, guys are asses all the time, it doesnt mean you ride them off totally. Yeah, you put up a caution and make a mental note about it, but you dont totally blow them off. And Rory's a caring individual, I mean I understand in plenty of moments why Rory would want to date him, but she doesnt know him, thats the bottom line. I truly believe that thats not actually Tristan, its a facade. Put up due to school, expectation, the whole "prince of Chilton" thing. Anyways, back towards Dean. "If he really had true feelings for her that he wanted to reveal why didn't he? When Dean was interested he told Rory."--Sara.  Dean and Tristan are two different people, two different types of guys. They're practically complete opposites, with one thing in common, Rory. I think Tristan didnt tell Rory he liked her because he was afraid of the rejection(awwwww), and I know Im going to a get a " Yeah right, Mr. Big Bad Chilton, afraid...pfft!" in response. But thats ok, because I believe it. Hes not used to a girl not falling at his feet, call it conceited, call it chauvinistic, call it whatever you want, but its the life hes used to. But he really cares about Rory, and he doesnt want to get hurt. What little of his life you know of on the show, its all portrayed very coldly. If you grew up in the cold, you're defense would be to build yourself a stone heart. Now just how much would it hurt if you tried to let someone in after 17 years of being alone, in the cold, and they flat out rejected you? How do you think that would feel? I know T doesnt take the smartest approach to Rory, but he's adorable none-the-less. Another cliche to add, you tease the one you love. Well what exactly does that say about the R/T dynamic? Also, if R/D is so great, why is it that thats the hardest type of fanfic(well, L/M is down there too, but the hair!!!!!!   That one has an explanation). I think Dean is the perfect guy for a girl, but Im positive as hell that the perfect girl isnt Rory.
~*Susie*
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[GilmoreGirlFan]

I'm not good at debating.  And I should have posted this sooner but I just signed on right now.

I know I should say something, but I will let Sara or Melissa say something.

[glow=Green,2,300]~ WeNdY[/glow]

[Materialgrl82]

[glow=red,2,300]Alright, I really dont know where Im picking up here, and I keep continually going off on tangents so I promise nothing on content anymore, ok? Just warning you.

Another reason I think Tris and Rory are perfect for each other, although I mentioned this briefly earlier, Im going more in depth this time, its banter. I mean when Dean is with Lorelai and Rory, he can never keep up. Although, we've never seen Lorelai and Tristan together(I will pay money to see that, I hope it happens sometime!) Im almost absolutely positive T could kepp up with the two Lorelai's. Luke and Lorelai have this relationship dynamic, mirror image to that of Tristan and Rory's. Although in comparison, this are intertwined between characters. Tristan is similar to Luke in his obvious feelings for one of the Lorelai's and in not being open about them, in a serious way. However Tristan and Lorelai had similar upbringings, and have this attitude with them that its both charming and full of barriers. Rory is quite like Lorelai in how they are both oblivious to the feelings from Tristan or Luke. Both couples maintain a playful relationship, although the trory relationship is definitely filled with more barbs and barriers, which makes sense. Lorelai and Luke have a comfortable friendship, possibly leading to more(we better hope so! Right Lauren?) based on this bickering, where as Rory and Tristan have yet to form that solid friendship, however they've got the romantic tension down pat. Thats it for now, my hands cramping again damnit!
~*Susie*[/glow]

[Materialgrl82]

[glow=red,2,300]My hand cramp is finally fading, so here goes...
"Tristan was given several opportunities to be with Rory."--Sara. Completely untrue, or at least I believe so. As if Rory's just going to dump Dean and jump into Tristan's arms, mmmhmm . Most of the instances you mentioned were while Rory and Dean were/are dating, and Rory's not one to hop from guy to guy. Tristan was given several opportunities to be nice to Rory, that I believe. Also, I know this a trivial point, but out of Dean and Tristan, realistically whos character has been established more throughout the show? Personally, I feel Tristan's has. Thus, him having a last name, and a sort of personality and enigmatic quality. And Dean is explained a bit, although very minimally.
~*Susie* [/glow]

[Sara]

NO!NO!NO!NO!
I had an awesome message here and then it was too long and when I went back it was gone!!!!

Fine here I go:

Tristan is guaranteed an entrance into college even if he doesn't do well at Chilton. He has money ...he'll get in...I've seen it happen time and time again.

Of course Dean wasn't going to be easily convinced to going to a debutante ball. He wasn't rasied in a suit and tux atmosphere. He doesn't want to be there but he goes sure Rory now watches Battlebots with him but that's an excuse to for Dean to be near her.

Dean does trust her just not Tristan and Jess. And Dean gets jealous? What about Tristan picking a fight with Dean because he was jealous! Tristan had no claim to Rory at all but he still picked a fight because he was jealous. Talk about controlling your temper rich kid.

Tristan is not exactly your bad-boy type that crown goes to Jess. Tristan displayed immaturity in stealing her books. Yeah, it may be adorable to you but not to Rory. Rory has always been attracted to mature guys I.E. Dean and Jess. Tristan does not display maturity in his bantering regardless of his environment. Jess has had a tough life too...tougher actually and he isn't a childish boy resorting to sandbox tactics. Dean playfully teased her and with the mysterious look and motorcycle he won her over. But then it comes out that Dean is more than that he is a caring, honest individual and will not say things in order to please others as demonstrated with Lorelai and Richard.

[Sara]

Rory is a caring person...therefore she tried to help out Tristan...she saw in him the potential to be a good person and thought hey we could have been friends.

Rory wanting to go to Harvard is something she wants to do on her own as seen when Lorelai stated she would visit often. If Dean isn't nearby its ok because they have their love for each other and that will unite them. He doesn't need to be a genius...she loves him for who he is and doesn't want to change him.

Sure Tristan and Rory share the bantering that Luke and Lorelai do BUT there is a big difference. Luke and Lorelai have a strong friendship. Tristan and Rory do not. Rory banters with him so that he'll leave she has always been annoyed and in the third and fourth pic Susie their is a spark alright but of anger. Rory is uncomfortable around him. His playboy acts disgust her and she has never demonstrated caring about him.

"tristan was giving the opportunity and he was still a jerk...he was a jerk from the beginning so he just ruined his opportunities!"--Melissa   Just curious Melissa, are you saying here you dont believe in second chances? - Susie

No, not in this case. In order to get a second chance you have to earn it by trying to change. Tristan may feel strongly for Rory but he hasn't tried to change so he'll appeal to her. When Tristan asked Rory to PJ Harvey he used his normal playboy persona...instead of sincerely asking her to go with him. She blew him off. He didn't deserve a second chance. And in runaway little boy he acted the same way.

[Sara]

Final note: Tristan is given a last name to complete the rich society act. He can't just be Tristan but Tristan Dugrey. Dean has been developed as a person. This can be seen through his first conversation with Lorelai and his talks with Richard. He is kind, and honest and he doesn't believe in lying to others in order to please them. He is sure of himself and he won't stoop down to changing so that others will like him. He doesn't hang out with the popular crowd. He doesn't care about dances and balls. They aren't his thing and he isn't going to change his views so that others will like it. However, he'd do whatever for Rory so he puts his feeling aside to help her.

As for Dean not keeping up with their banter...of course he can... just because we don't seem him spouting pop culture references doesn't mean he can't keep up. He was explaining them to (EWWW!) M**Medina. He has even given his own remarks.

And fanfic...not too many people feel the need to write fanfic about them they are happy and together. Tristan has to be changed so much he isn't the Tristan from the show Sure he keeps his charm but we never see his journey to self-discovery and to change. All of the sudden he's a sensitive guy bent on romancing Rory.

[Sara]

Ok this is the final note...

Dean and Rory are meant to be just like Luke and Lorelai. Max was from Chilton and so was Tristan they are both gone. Sure Christopher and Jess stand in the way but in the end we know that Lorelai and Luke will be together no matter how long it takes ( right Laur?) and so will Rory and Dean.  Luke was the first romance possibility we saw Lorelai with and Dean was the same for Rory. In the End it will be L/L and R/D.

***As for the James Dean ref. I have to say I love James Dean but Tristan hardly fits that. Dean was given that name because of James Dean ( I read this once in an interview with AS P) He was meant to be the badboy in town until hardcore Jess came along who now wears the crown. Ok done.

[Materialgrl82]

[glow=red,2,300]Alright Sara, I understand where you're coming from and I agree with you on some points, but there are still so many areas of gray that need to be clarified.
""tristan was giving the opportunity and he was still a jerk...he was a jerk from the beginning so he just ruined his opportunities!"--Melissa   Just curious Melissa, are you saying here you dont believe in second chances? - Susie

No, not in this case. In order to get a second chance you have to earn it by trying to change. Tristan may feel strongly for Rory but he hasn't tried to change so he'll appeal to her. When Tristan asked Rory to PJ Harvey he used his normal playboy persona...instead of sincerely asking her to go with him. She blew him off. He didn't deserve a second chance. And in runaway little boy he acted the same way."--Sara
Thank you for your opinion Sara, and although I directed that question towards Melissa, you make some good points. I agree, Tris is a total ass in Love, Daisies and Troubadours. But the part about him being like that in Run Away, Little Boy, is both true and untrue. He acts like that to Dean, knowing that it will flair Deans jealousy. Also, how do you know hes not just looking for an escape from rehearsal? If he distracts Rory and makes Dean jealous, it buys him time to get out...which he does. It may be playing off weakness, but it shows that boys got wit. Plus, when he says goodbye to Rory, you see an emotion on his face, you hardly ever see. Tristan may not get the second chance, but everyone deserves one. He shows when he says goodbye that shes important to him, and that he respects what she has going in her life, well also tapping into their childlike playful relationship. Shes the only one he says goodbye to, and that has to count for something. You may say its because shes the only one there at the time, and the only person he has time to see, but he certainly is glad that its her he last sees. Also, he respects the fact that Rory and Dean are together, no matter how much it disturbs him, and breaks his heart, he doesnt ruin what she has going with Dean. Something that definitely didnt fit into his facade. And he pulls there relationship full circle. He calls her Mary when he meets her, she gets ticked, he calls her Mary when he leaves, she smiles. Its come as a term of endearment, Rory clearly isnt mad in that bittersweet smile.
~*Susie*

[/glow]

[Materialgrl82]

[glow=red,2,300]And yes, you bring up the point that the Luke/Lorelai dynamic varies from the Rory/Tristan dynamic, but its a point that I already brought up. Yes, Lorelai and Luke have a stable friendship, something Rory and Tristan obviously lack.
"Dean and Rory are meant to be just like Luke and Lorelai. Max was from Chilton and so was Tristan they are both gone. Sure Christopher and Jess stand in the way but in the end we know that Lorelai and Luke will be together no matter how long it takes ( right Laur?) and so will Rory and Dean.  Luke was the first romance possibility we saw Lorelai with and Dean was the same for Rory. In the End it will be L/L and R/D.

***As for the James Dean ref. I have to say I love James Dean but Tristan hardly fits that. Dean was given that name because of James Dean ( I read this once in an interview with AS P) He was meant to be the badboy in town until hardcore Jess came along who now wears the crown. Ok done."--Sara
Alright, I could so kick your butt right now for even comparing M*x to Tris, and I swear if you were here, Id flip out. But Im in a good mood, so Ill leave that alone. To borrow a line from She's All That, "One second, you're Zach Siler, class president, stand-out athlete, all-around bad-ass mamba-jahamba; the next thing you know, you're Zach Siler, b*tch-boy."--Dean Sampson(Paul Walker's character). Now, I know that quote applies in a very odd way. But Im sorry could someone explain it to me, how in the heck is Dean our resident bad ass? Even if Jess didnt exist. Dean is like the guy every girl wants. Hes caring and doesnt forget anniversaries and hes stable. But Im sorry, it may be my personal opinion, but hes sorta uhhh boring? I mean theres no mystery about him. Yeah, hes dependable, but theres nothing "bad" about him. Okay, the motorcycle and the leather jacket, but its still not doin much for his bad boy image. And Sara, when you were talking about Lorelai/Luke and Rory/Dean being the first couples you really can get drawn to, I dont actually believe it. Tristans there from one of the first episodes, hes a jerk, but hes got charm. And maybe its just me who thinks its clear, but you can tell thats not really him. And with Lorelai, Chris is always there in the background. So, I dont know, they were near the beginning, but they were never running uncontested.
~*Susie*
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[Melissa]

No noooooo! everything u said was wrong!! and also isnt it just suppose to be r/t and r/d? i read something about r/j and l/c and i think a little l/l way back. okay...but thats not the point.... and going back to where susie questioned me about not believing in second chances...well tristan was given a second chance even a third...he was given numerous chances and he ruined them all for himself by being a jerk!  and going back not so far about tristan not having opportunities...well he did! from the beginning he had one, he had a bunch becuz rory just wouldnt hate him from the first impression. then he had another at rorys bday party but he was a total a.ss. then he had another when rory was in line buying tickets to the dance. and i could go on and on (but im not going to cuz im tired)about all these times when tristan was being a jerk and ruined any chance of rory liking him.

**sorry if i seem mean during the debate but i wanna win! lol!jk winning isnt important!**

[Materialgrl82]

[glow=red,2,300]Well gee Melissa, thanks, now Im just completely stupid because everything I say is wrong. Im feeling the love. But Ive got more important things to worry about. So Tristans a jerk sometimes. How do you know thats the real Tristan? Besides, its not black and white. Life never is, theres this miracle thing called gray, and thats what Im talking about. Also, if Tristan's such a jerk Melissa, how come you love him?
~*Susie*[/glow]

[GilmoreChica]

[glow=purple,2,300]you guys are good.....this is gonna be tough!
well heres my two sense......

ok...first of all, you narcs say that their love will withstand the distance in college, but how many relationships do you know of that do? I am not saying it isnt possible, but with all the new opportunities in college, new ppl....welll you cant be sure.

And with all the comments about how Tristan was given numerous opportunities to prove himself, and be her friend...well I agree he was given several opportunities, but I don't think rory tried either. Melissa or Sara said that Rory wouldnt totally write him off after one meeting (such as his jerkiness in the first day at chilton), but then you contradict yourself with he doesnt deserve a secobd chance. WHat do we have then? ROry wouldnt blow him off after one occasion, but Tristan doesnt get a second chance? THose two dont owrk together!

And about dean not being able to keep up....I also get the impression that Tristan could keep up with the Gilmores. And Dean admitted he couln't keep up.
DEAN: Oh, and uh, here's a big one. If you ever think that they're doing something crazy, they're not. You see, after a while, their thinking becomes clear, but by the time it's clear, they've already done two other totally crazy things that you can't figure out. So there's no catching up.


Also, how many first relationships are the only one....I mean, R/D won't be together forever. I know there are the select few couples who date all through high school, then marry, but you can tell r/d wont do that. Not when they are on the rocks in junior year....in the end, r/d WONT be together.....

I might be digging a trory grave, but I also want to add that tristan didnt tell about the kiss when rory asked him not to @ the rehearsal...he gave her s.hit, no doubt, but he didnt say anything....he made a crack about their first kiss, but that was taken as a joke, and he knwe it, or owuldnt have said anything.

DEAN IS VERY BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!

and now some more visuals...
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[GilmoreChica]

[glow=red,2,300]I know the pics have to do with how he looks, but that is to rory's advantage!

and on a slightly more immature note, R/D IS BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! their relationship isnt written about in fics CUZ NO ONE WOULD READ!!!!!! no one wants to here about a teenage couple that acts like they are retired and married fifty years!


also, i think r/d kiss way too much.....I know its a sign of affection and everything, but when rory has to practically push him away to get a few words in, in the one eppy, cant remember what it is, where she is like excited bout something, and he keeps asking if he can kiss her yet, while she is trying to get an excitign story out.......you can tell what he wants in a relationship![/glow]